Visa
In late 2002 we tried to apply for a visa for my wife to visit the US with me to meet my parents. Here is a copy of a newsgroup post that I made Jan 7, 2003. Original post
Newsgroup: misc.immigration.usa
Date: Jan 7, 2003
I am publishing this partly as a rant, as well as to share our experiences
with others. Even if you are not involved with visa's or immigration you
will likely find the situation funny, or more likely insulting. Please bear
with me through the introduction. The first part is a bit slow, but the
second visit to an embassy is the most amazing part.
First a little background. I am a US citizen who was born and raised in the
US. I now an am ex-pat and live overseas. I am married to a Russian citizen
and we reside mainly between two countries. We reside in Russia in the
summer and a warmer Western European country in the Winter. We also travel
extensively each year in both Western and Eastern Europe. I have lived
outside of the US on a permanent basis for over 2 years now and prior to
that made regular trips and stays to Europe.
One would think that an American married to a Russian could easily get a
visa for his wife to visit family. However this story will demonstrate
otherwise, and even demonstrate behavior and attitudes that are beyond
belief.
Shortly after we were married we visited the US consulate in St
Petersburg, Russia where we reside. We own our house in St Petersburg and
my wife has a law degree. She was a partner in a practice and was also a
professor in a law university. She has since sold her stake in her practice
and is self employed. I am self employed as a consultant in the software
industry and work all over the world, although mostly in Europe.
At the consulate we applied for a single entry visitor visa and paid around
$60. This money is not refundable even if they turn you down. First we had
to get to the consulate and wait outside in a line at about 6:00 am so we
could even get inside. We waited outside in the rain for about two hours as
memory serves me. Once inside we paid our $100 and filled out the proper
paperwork. We then had to wait an other two hours or so.
At that point we were finally interviewed by a “pre-screener” who checked
all of our documents. We presented all the necessary paperwork including my
US passport, documentation on ownership of our house, my tax returns, her
previous visa to Spain, and more.
After that we were told to sit down again until called. After some time we
were called again to be interviewed. The interview took about 20 minutes
and they denied her a visa based on the fact that “You might decide to
stay, and you do not have significant ties to Russia”. They then put a
stamp in her passport indicating that she had been denied a visa. Through
the whole time my wife and the other Russians were treated like they have
always treated them, like cattle. Like people that are less in value. Its
very demeaning throughout the whole process and very different than they
treat citizens of the US and other countries who visit the consulate.
They told us that maybe after we had been married for a while they might
give us a visa, but even then it was not very likely. They told us that we
should apply for a green card which would give her ability to travel
freely. But to get a green card you have to go through the embassy in
Moscow. This involves a lot of paperwork, many visits to Moscow (a 7 hour
ride by train each way), and takes over 6 months. But really that is not
the problem – the problem is to get a green card you must plan to reside in
the US. Which we do not. We do not reside in the US and have no plans to.
So based on this, the green card would not be issued to us, unless we lied
on the application. Even if we did somehow get the green card, we would
lose it upon renewal because we would not meet the residency requirements.
It would then create a “black mark” for her. This information is based on
information told to me by the US Embassy in Moscow.
So we conveyed all this to the Consulate in St Petersburg when they told us
to get a green card. At that point they said “We'll sorry. We cant issue
the visa. Its not our problem you cannot get a green card”. I pushed a bit
and asked realistically what we could do. The answer was that I should move
back to the states and after reestablishing residence contact INS and tell
them that I had found a woman on the Internet, wanted to marry her, and
apply for a fiance visa. Not only is this absurd, but this again would lead
us to a green card, which we do not want nor qualify for.
All we wanted was to return to the US for approximately one month for my
wife to meet my parents and other family.
We then waited about 9 months before trying again. During that time several
phone calls were made to the consulate, embassy, and INS in the states. We
were given the same basic answers each time. No we cannot give her a visa,
get a green card. When told we did not want to live in the US we were told
“sorry, nothing we can do”.
In December 2002 we tried again at a US Embassy in a Western European
country. This time we had much more documentation which included: Proof of
ownership of residence in Russian, a visa for the country we were staying
the winter in, proof of ownership of a residence in the country, marriage
certificate from the same country, bank statements with significant
balances, my tax filings, passports, her used visa to the Netherlands, her
used visa to Germany, and her used visa to Spain.
This time we were treated more like humans. We waited outside in a
reasonably sheltered area unlike in Russia where they do not even provide
cover from the weather. We waited about 30 minutes and were taken in
through security to the cashier. Recently its been raised to $100. We paid
$100 and they stapled the receipt to my wife's passport. No respect again.
Had someone put a big staple through my US passport everyone would be quite
upset, but a Russian passport is treated as disposable.
After clearing a lot of security (irritating, but necessary I am sure) we
were taken inside to fill out the visa application.
When called I went up to the window and was asked if my wife spoke English.
She said yes and I was told to sit down. The manner in which people are
interviewed is very impersonal and embarrassing. Instead of conducting them
in at least some sort of privacy there are just a few windows in front of
the chairs. Everyone else who is waiting for a visa is sitting right there
listening to your story and personal details. This is very unprofessional
and embarrassing.
The person interviewed my wife for about 20 minutes and denied her a visa
again on the same grounds. This time my wife was in tears again, and left
to cry in front of the crowd of other people waiting to be called. They
again stamped her passport with stamped indicating that she had applied for
a US visa and bee denied. To add injury to insult, they stamped it on the
cover page of her passport over top of the text and passport information.
It was not on the page with the photo etc, but on the “Passport of Russian
Federation” etc. Right on top. There are dozens of pages for visas and
endorsements, and they choose right on top of the cover page. They might as
well just add “trash passport” as thats how they treat it. Given a Western
European passport, I doubt they would treat it in such a manner.
I calmed down and went to the citizen services window and asked them
realistically what am I supposed to do. I was not even allowed to speak and
was told to sit down before her interview, quite abruptly and rudely I
might add. At the citizen services window they were much friendlier and
advised me I could speak with the consul directly since I was a US citizen.
I said that I wanted to speak with him directly. I was then told that he
was not here at this moment. I asked when he would be back and I was told
in a few hours. I told them that I would wait. He then asked me a bit about
the interview and I told him that I had not been allowed to participate and
had been told to sit down prior to the interview. At that point he went and
talked with the interviewer and the interviewer agreed to speak with me.
At this point I was about ready to lose it, but I was trying to remain
tempered and not have my rear tossed out by the Marines. While this is not
verbatim, the conversation proceeded similar to this. I am not exagerating
any parts or adding dramatic effects. I am using my memory as best I
recall.
Me: Why was my wife's visa denied?
Interviewer: I cannot guarantee that you will return. You might want to
stay. You should apply for a green card.
Me: I am not going to accept that textbook answer. I am a US citizen and
you are going to have to do better than that. This may work on a Mongolian
goat herder, but I deserve better than this from my own Embassy.
Interviewer: Well you do not have significant ties to Europe.
Me: I do not have significant ties to the US either other than my passport.
I have many more ties to Europe. I do not own any property in the US. I do
own properties in two countries in Europe, have business in Europe, as well
as registered cars in Europe.
Me: Look at my passport. You can see that I have not been to the US very
much in the past few years.
Interviewer: I do not need to see that.
Me: Yes you do. It is a US passport and you are going to look at it. See
this? This is an addendum to my passport. This is because my passport was
completely full and they had to add new pages. Look (opening to page 1),
Germany, United Kingdom, Australia....
Interviewer: Enough Sir.
Me: No its not. My wife tried to show you this and other documentation
which you refused to look at. You are going to look at it now. Germany,
Poland, Russia
Interviewer: Enough Sir.
Me: Romania, France, ... And continuing on for about 40 more stamps. I
finally stopped after she got the point. Reading all of them would have
taken hours.
At this point the crowd behind me was really taking interest. Later on my
wife told me the were asking her questions like “He's a US citizen and you
cannot get a visa? Oh man were screwed”.
Interviewer: Well your flat is awful small.
Me: There are two of us. We have no kids. How is 3 bedrooms not large
enough? How big of a flat do you live in?
Interviewer: The tax statements you showed me were from 2001.
Me: Yes, of course. This is 2002. I cannot file for 2002 yet.
Interviewer: They are US taxes. Why did you file US taxes if you do not
live there?
Me: Because the US taxes on citizenship. I have to file those no matter
where I live. Are you telling me that I should not file them? Please, can I
borrow the phone? I would like to have you speak to the IRS for me. I am
sure they would love to hear that the US Embassy is exempting me from this.
Interviewer: Well I still cannot guarantee you will return.
Me: Did you look in my wife's passport?
Interviewer: No.
Me: Why not? She tried to show it to you. Look here, she's had separate
visas to Germany, the Netherlands and Spain. She returned on all of them.
We also have a valid visa here that you have seen and spend our winters
here. She has also visited France and Belgium using the Schengen
agreements. Why is it the did not give us any hassle but my own country
gives us so many troubles?
Interviewer: I dont know.
Me: Well you better figure it out and tell me, because I'm speaking with
the Consul next and I bet he will be asking you. You better have a better
answer than “I don't know”.
Interviewer: Well Germany is Germany, not the US.
Me: What does that mean? Are you saying Germany is a third world country?
Give me a break. Do you realize you just said that in front of all these
people? Maybe one of them is German. Will you be willing to repeat your
statement to the German Embassy just down the road? Germany is not a third
world country. They didn't give her any trouble, and neither did The
Netherlands or Spain. Your running out of excuses.
Interviewer: What if you choose to stay?
Me: We do not want to live in the US. We are happy where we are. Why is it
that you cannot believe that not everyone in the world wants to live in the
US? Are Europeans inferior in some way? Why is this so hard for you to
believe? And if I want to stay, I have a US passport.
Me: Do you realize the Canadians said they would grant my wife a visa no
problem? They even asked how long we wanted to stay. It is going to be
really embarrassing when we have to fly to Toronto and have my parents meet
us in Niagara Falls because my own country will not let her visit.
There were numerous other arguments that have lapsed my memory. In the she
ended up reversing her decision and granting the visa. She had to alter the
stamp in my wife's passport.
I also promised her we would not attempt to amend the visa stateside. We
have no intent to. We just wanted to visit. They issued the visa with a
comment on the visa “Not permitted to adjust status”.
When we arrived in New York Immigration saw this and told us “This is your
country. If you want to stay longer, all you have to do is ask”. This was
without any comment from us to trigger such a comment. I explained the
situation and they could not believe it. I told them thanks but we were
only visiting. INS obviously has no idea how the consulates are handling
visa. They appear to have two totally different directives.
We have no intention to adjust our status as I gave the woman in the
Embassy my word. However in the future I do not wish to waste a day, $100,
and a trip to the capital city for each visa. They should issue her a multi
entry visa and be done with it. I will push for this next time for sure.
Welcome to the USA.
--
Chad Z. Hower (a.k.a. Kudzu) - http://www.hower.org/Kudzu/
"Programming is an art form that fights back"
Additional Notes
After reading this again, I remembered one additional detail. When I asked "Are you saying Germany is a third world country?", the interviewer replied something to the effect of "No, but maybe a second world one".
At the time I was worried about identifying which Embassy it was. I no longer have such concerns. This event ocurred at the American Embassy in Nicosia, Cyprus. Aside from this individual, others at the Embassy have acted in a professional, respectful manner. It does not however change the fact that in the visa department, this woman's actions are not atypical.
I've been to American Embassies in Romania, Russia, Cyprus, and Turkey. Citizens Foreigners in these countries are very commonly treated with such disrespect.
My wife has been through the visa process for Cyprus, Canada, The Netherlands, Finland, Germany, and Spain. Some of these countries she has had mulitple entry visas, or received multiple visas. I accompanied her on many of the visits to the Embassies and Consulates of these countries and was able to see how she and other applicants were treated. For myself, I've personally applied for visa several times to the countries of Russia, Pakistan, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia. I've had some interesting experiences at some, however during none of these applications was my wife or I ever treated in such a disrespectful manner, nor did I see others generally treated in such a way.
Having lived in Russia, Cyprus, Turkey, and Jordan, I've made many friends. Those who have had to apply for American visas have relayed similar and often worse stories to me. After publishing this article in 2003, I received hundreds of private e-mails relaying horror stories about applying for visas world wide in American Embassies for mothers, wives, and other family members.
Many people have also written me to say that things have changed since 2002. But really they have not. I still hear stories and receive e-mails about recent incidents. The problem is quite systematic and widespread.
I understand the need for the visa process and for the Americans to be able to protect security. However none of this justifies the attitude, or manner in which people from poorer foreign counties are treated during this process. It was obvious from the start that my wife was no security risk, so using the matter of security in these and other cases is a false excuse.
We did in fact visit the US and return back to Europe as promised. A few years later we applied again and successfully received a multi-entry visa without any hassle. However still nothing has been done to fix this system or treat visa applicants with very much respect.
It Gets Better
Or actually I should say worse. A few months later, the police in Cyprus showed up at our flat with a search warrant. I was actually in Germany at the time but my wife conacted me over the computer and told me what was going on, and afterward we spoke by phone. The Cyprus police had a search warrant to search our flat for drugs. We were both completely dumb founded. Neither of us have ever used any illegal drugs. Neither of us have even smoked! The Cyprus police were very polite. After learning that my wife did not speak Greek and was home alone, waited to enter until a female officer arrived who spoke both English and Russian. They searched the entire flat, digging through personal items, underwear, everything. They were professional and polite, but non the less my wife was quite disturbed by the experience. Of course, they found nothing.
When they left, they left their card and asked that when I returned from Germany I pay them a visit to chat over some coffee. I returned a few days later and my wife and I went to the police station for a chat. The officer in charge was very polite and explained that they had received a tip that I was a drug dealer. I asked repeatedly where this tip came from. He said that he could not say. He did however release some information regarding when the tip was given, and showed me some copies of some my documents. He apologized profusely for intruding into our flat. I asked him what would stop any one from just calling in such tips to spite someone. He said they only react when the source is credible. I asked what would stop someone from harassing me in this manner. He said we had nothing to worry about, because if a second tip came in they would now treat it with suspicion and require more evidence before simply acting.
We then left and went home. I had a few days to think about it. Cyprus is a small place, a mere 750,000 or so people. This means that people know each other well, and instead of the usual "six degrees of separation", its more like three. It does not take a lot of asking to find someone who knows a member of parliament, or a senior government official. We asked many of our Cypriot friends for help. They were horrified. But one of them had a relative who was a retired senior police official. He relayed to us that it was the American Embassy without a doubt. He told us that very frequently they make calls to the Federal Police of Cyprus and tell them that people are drug dealers or other. He said that because they are the Embassy, that the police in Cyprus feel obliged to do at least a search warrant, but in most cases turn up nothing. He felt that many of these calls were vengeful and had no basis in fact.
We then remembered the documents I had seen in the police station. And the date. The date was just two days after we had been to the American Embassy, and the copies of my personal docouments that he showed to me only very few people would have access to. There is no doubt it was the American Embassy, very likely the interviewer.
Years Later
Several years later we needed to apply for a visa again. This time to go to the US for court hearings. We were very hesitant to even visit the American Embassy again. This time I called and spoke to someone first. I do not know the persons name, but one person in particular at the Embassy has always been extremely polite. I believe he is a Cypriot American. By chance, we reached him on the phone and I recognized his voice. At this point I did not want to give any names, I only explained briefly that last time we applied for a visa it was very "unpleasant" and that the visa officer had been extremely disrespectful. He replied "Oh don't worry about that, it won't be a problem anymore". My interest was picqued this time. I decided to push a little bit. He repeated the same response, with a little more emphasis on "anymore". I was even more intrigued. I asked "What exactly do you mean? I must say that last time was beyond unprofessional'. He told me "Look, I cannot really say much. And you must not tell anyone I told you this, but all I can say is: She does not work here anymore".
That gave us enough confidence to schedule a visa appointment and travel to Nicosia. We arrived with tons of documentation as before. This time they were polite, asked very few questions, and only glanced at supporting documentation. My wife was issued a multi entry visa with no unusual comments or restrictions.
I'm very glad that in the end this particular person was dealt with. However this type of behaviour continues to this day in other Embassies and Consulates. In addition, I have reason to believe that the false information given to the Cyprus police has left a black mark on my file in the American Embassy. This combined with my work for Microsoft in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and some other issues has gained the interest of more than one intelligence service and caused me quite some troubles.
